of distance, and more playable iron trajectories. Sitemap. Is that ok? But there is a lot more to it than that. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. This applies to both face angle and lie. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. Getting your first putt inside three feet will greatly improve your score. (I ran into this today.) Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. The market is fascinating this week, with world number 376 Andrew Novak leading the field. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. . And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. 10.5 set at small - So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Military. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. St Louis, MO. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. I am in favor of weaker lofts. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. Paste as plain text instead, After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Shane Lowry on the new Srixon ZX Mk II line (fairway wood, utility, ZX5/ZX7 irons). Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. Seriously. The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. is 2 degrees enough to mess up a club? The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver I would advise you to not try it yourself unless you have experience in doing so professionally. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 I'm guessing it will dig more but how much more? PING Anser 4 Hybrid Learn how your comment data is processed. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. And its one of only two elements of the golf swing that require absolutely no physical skills. Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. Required fields are marked *. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? Will keep that in mind from now on, It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther,. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. St Louis, MO. Bounce means nothing. Your previous content has been restored. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Mizuno irons can be adjusted to varying degrees depending on model and material type. Upload or insert images from URL. I've never had a sand wedge bent. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. For you lower swing speed players, go to blades with weaker lofts or better yet go to an old vintage blades with the pitching wedge 52 degrees, and you can hit the ball farther hehe. For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. The G30 is a high-launching game improvement design. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. I just switched from Wilson Ci9 to Taylormade TP MC, and Ive gained almost 15 yards despite the lofts being higher. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. Loft and lie changes are more or less permanent. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. Thanks for the insight! While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. So to get the most performance out of each iron, for these low ball hitters, we need to add loft. We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. So the assumption is that the loft alone is what is creating more distance with the new irons. You won't notice it. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Pasted as rich text. Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited We have seen significant distance improvements with all 3 of these irons, it just needs to match up with how you launch the ball. And here is why. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? ENTER NOW! Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. You may want to try searching if you need more info. Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. Hes happy to answer any of your questions! Good point. Then if your wedge gaps are off you might tweak them a degree. When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. Worked very well IMO in terms of reducing spin You will need to check your distances with these gapped lofts. Sure. Thank you for such an eye opening article. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? Step 3. This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. Callaway 2018 MB irons I've never had a sand wedge bent, I suppose that could be an issue but if you open the blade a bit the bounce comes back. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. **. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? I do not disagree with you on the long irons Drew, we have hybrids to replace those. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X It is a lot easier to find what lie angle you need in your golf clubs and purchase a set rather than have to individually bend each club. Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! As far as lofts for amateurs go, I feel like long irons have to little difference between them. Thats why I recommend that golfers get fit for irons on golf radar by a certified fitter who understands how loft and COG work together in iron design. That is why getting the numbers is so important. Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG356* TW grind. Display as a link instead, From my observation of thousands of golfers of all skill levels, far too many are deficient in the fundamentals, starting with the grip, and then to the set-up and only then to the swing motion. It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. As a lifelong golfer, a student of the game and having made my living in the golf equipment industry for 40-plus years, I have made it a study to observe golfers of all skill levels as they try to figure out this crazy and very difficult game. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Custom Edel E-3 Putter. The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. With all due respect, I am not saying you do not, but club fitters do this all the time and if they mess it up then they can replace the club. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. Your link has been automatically embedded. But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. Great article! The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! More photos from the event here. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. My advice is to get fit as cheaply as you can and find some newer distance irons on Ebay or BST that can fit you. Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. Pasted as rich text. . With added ball speed comes more launch. Good question. Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. Yes, thats essentially what Im asking. You can post now and register later. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. 2023 Acushnet Company. All rights reserved. The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. Couldn't agree more with your entire post. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. By adding loft, those golfers achieve more ideal launch conditions, which means they carry shots farther and stop the ball faster on the green. on tight fairways. It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. Thanks everybody for the help! Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth it, especially if you already take a divot. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. Your email address will not be published. You can easily bend the lofts and lies to be progressively consistent from one club to the next with zero tolerance. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. The speed of putts is crucial. -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. A lot of mixing and matching
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