Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. The marsh is in riot! Charles Askins provides data for the patterning of several of his personal shotguns with Westerns Super X shells loaded with their new #4 copper-plated shot. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. Both guns averaged 80% or better patterns with all loads of #4 shot. When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. He worked with another Winchester researcher. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. When it was. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 View cart for details. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. Here's what it's like to shoot this classic scattergun. The first was helping the gunsmiths. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. Must ship to an FFL. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. $899.97. He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. The steel has a nice patina and the stock has most of the lacquer worn off. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. It also got a new action slide. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. 1934 skeet grade offerd. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. As good as the Brownings are, Ill just keep my Model 12s from New Haven. In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. . No. says Madis. Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. The price in 1963 was $122 compared to $109.50 for the standard Model 12. The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. I found some they didn't. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. Action works perfectly. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. Instead of buying a gun thats It was an immediate success. JavaScript is disabled. I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. Model 42s with later ribs than the donut post, with no Simmons markings or with Simmons markings, and with proof marks in the proper places are thought to have had their ribs installed at Simmons and sent back to Winchester for marketing or marketed at Simmons. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. That way, were helping small businesses in Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. I have several 2-pin guns. Winchester Model 12 Takedown Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Ventilated RibProduced in 1961. "SN:561491. Not shown in the table of results are the dense centers of patterns obtained with #4 shot compared to # 8 and #2 shot. John Olin wanted a new 3-inch .410 shotshell with 3/4-ounce of shot for Winchesters new Model 42. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. Bore is excellent. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Stay in the know. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. All Model 12 shotguns have an action slide lock that keeps the action closed and locked in the event of a misfire or hang-fire. It was manufactured in 1962 and is a skeet grade. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? These were called long-range waterfowl guns.. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. Mechanically excellent. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. Elmer Keith instructs:For the man who wants greater range and a bigger shot load for duck or goose shooting, the Model 12 Winchester is in a class by itself [with] the long 3 load. Nevertheless, the 1 7/8-ounce load appeared in the mid-50s and now a full two ounces of shot can be had in the 12 magnum. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. The short shot string put more shot into a duck whistling by at 50 yards. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. During that time they largely made the right business decisions, hired the right people, and enjoyed a fair share of luck. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. I had a friend who is deceased now that did extensive research on the Model 12 2-pin rib. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. I hope this helps you out A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Length of pull is 14". Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. There is a moderate mark as shown in the photograph. At Guns.com, if an FFL is It is first shooting light. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. Must be shipped to an FFL, New price, Listed is a like new Winchester DU, Model-12, 12 Ga Pump Shotgun. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. Open Fullscreen. Advanced . SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. M, ventilated rib, mid 1950's manufacture, completely original, only one ever produced by Winchester, ultimate rarity for the Model 12 co, 12ga, #1737096, standard gun that has been restocked and has a Simmons ventilated rib added, 12ga, 30 inch barrel, full choke, 2 3/4 inch chamber, 14 3/4 inch LOP with "Decelerator" pad, blu, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood, Winchester Model 12 28 gauge Skeet solid rib. Pictures are of the item listed. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. A smothered roar from around the corner! His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, about earning points with eBay Mastercard, Report this item - opens in new window or tab. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. In their view, the Model 12 pump with 3-inch chamber was likely to sell better than a similarly chambered Model 21 double. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. Bore and action are excellent. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. A Cold War era classic with smooth lines, a legendary back story, and an exotic-sounding name, Beretta's Model 71 was definitely a mouse that roared. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. Since you in Kansas; ever deal with now deceased Felix Bedlan @ Fairbury, Neb. The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. I used to club trap targets with it. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. No Reserve. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." Smith Double Barrel Shotgun $250 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Twenty" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning "Light Twelve" Semi Automatic Shotgun $200 Mar 24, 2023 Browning Pump Action Shotgun $150 Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. Askins and Buckingham would sure be surprised at how far the 12 magnum has come. So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. Olin included his new Super-X magnum 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8 ounces of shot. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 1d 15h 33m 17222600. 30" Full choke barrel. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. becouse plain barrels shoot higher than solid ribs do ,solid ribs shoot flatter. The Model 12 Duck Gun is a highly specialized tool for hunters who need to put a lot of shot on target at 60 yards or more. The extra weight is meant to soak up the recoil of what once was thought to be a very hard-kicking load. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. Both guns have 30-inch Full choke barrels inscribed FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER-X 3 IN. The bores are bright with no pitting. Everything functions as it should. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. . The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). We need to talk model 12's sometime. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. George Madis indicates in his book The Winchester Model Twelve that about 18,000 Model 12 duck guns were sold during the 1935-1941 period. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. Johnson, at once one of the great gun designers and one of the least known, produced a steady flow of new firearm designs for Winchester. Johnson designed the Models 52 and 61 rimfire rifles and the Model 54 centerfire rifle. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. 2. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. custom bolt act. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. at the best online prices at eBay! This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. I believe the blueing to be original. I hunker down and blaze away. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun.
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